SSC meeting minutes 2023

[ivanov]

2024 meeting minutes

The meeting notes are edited via google docs during the meeting (edit link for SSC members). Each meeting's notes can then be added as a comment to this issue.

Table of content

• Dec 11th
• Dec 4th
• Nov 27th
• Nov 20h
• Nov 13th
• Nov 6th
• Oct 30th
• Oct 23th
• Oct 16th
• Oct 9th
• Oct 2nd
• Sept 25th
• Sept 18th
• Sept 11th
• Sept 4th
• Aug 21st
• Aug 14th
• Aug 7th
• July 31st
• July 24th
• July 17th
• July 10th

[ivanov]

Monday March 13, 2023

Attendees

• Frederic Collonval, JupyterLab, QuantStack
• Zach Sailer, Jupyter Server, Apple
• Min, JupyterHub, Simula
• Rick Wagner, Security, UCSD
• Sylvain Corlay, Voilà, QuantStack
• Johan Mabille, Kernels, QuantStack
• Eric Charles, Notebook, Datalayer, Anaconda
• Carol Willing, Standards, Noteable

Decisions made

Action items

Agenda and minutes

• Isabela - Meeting times

  • Mondays and Fridays at 8am Pacific (the time of this meeting) seem to have the most availability. Can we rotate times to make it available to more people?
  • Office hours: scheduling for how long and at what frequency

• Min - meetings

  • Can we avoid having regular meetings and conduct business via async means? Both times are very difficult for me, and I don’t think we should conduct things in any synchronous medium in general across the project.
  • Related: what’s the difference between this meeting and Friday’s meeting?
  • Work asynchronously as much as possible
  • The challenge is that in the “early days”, we need to review quite a few JEPs and get things moving—meetings might help us get this done.
  • If we stay asynchronous, can we use some signal to ensure that everyone is actively reviewing.

• Rick - Suggested standing topics: Review list of JEPS, JEP process until stable.

  • https://peps.python.org/pep-0000/#introduction (Python PEPs view of PEPs by Approval status and Implementation status) (Carol)
  • Shepherd can be optional when opened by someone already familiar to the process
  • Should we set a mandatory minimum time for discussion on all new JEP (something like 1 month?) ?
  • We should move forward with JEP 29 (revisit the JEP process). But in parallel we should make progress on some JEPs to revive the evolution as quickly as possible.

• [Frederic] Incubator organization

• [Frederic]Markdown syntax evolution: addition of MermaidJS inJupyterLab and nbconvert.

• Zach -

  • Who is going to JupyterCon?

    • Frederic
    • Johan
    • Eric
    • Min
    • Sylvain

• [NEXT ACTIONS]

  • Batch of JEPs for Mar 13 to April 12

    • Open Under Consideration

      • JEP 66 - Kernels port connection

  • Proposed list of JEPs to update status (Smaller team to curate)

    • Abandoned, Withdrawn, and Rejected PEPs
    • Accepted PEPs (accepted; may not be implemented yet)

  • [Frederic] Incubator - open PR to update the incubator process to align with the new governance and mentioning the process is obsolete and will be revised by the SSC

  • [Frederic] Markdown syntax evolution - open JEP for it

[ivanov]

Monday April 17, 2023

Attendees

• Frederic Collonval, JupyterLab
• Rick Wagner, Security
• Itay Dafna, Widgets
• Zach Sailer, Server
• Paul Ivanov, Foundations
• Johan Mabille, Kernels
• Sylvain Corlay, Voilà
• Nick Bolweg

Decisions made

• call for a vote on the Reviewed JEP Process by end of the week

Action items

• [Paul+anyone else] Look at what Python does for PEPs to align the JEP process with that

• [Johan] Creating jupyter standard GitHub organization (with sync with Carol)

• [Zach]

  • Email EC about schema.jupyter.org.
  • Submit a JEP for formalization of kernelspec

• [Johan] Plan to call for a vote on the Reviewed JEP Process by end of the week

Agenda and minutes

• Zoom link

• Start reviewingReviewed JEP process

  • Rick: For labels, is it possible to make them not conflict

  • Zack: what happens to the JEP JEP - do we make a new one, or update the old one

    • PEPs have “superseded by” “replaces”
    • Last edited
    • Stick to whatever python does, and do that

  • Nick: look at XMPP model

• Discuss having the protocol documentation in its own repository (and where)

  • Roadmap
  • Tools to generate code off of models/schemas
  • Consider conformance testing to confirm adherence
  • Jupyter standards org with a repo for

• Start reviewingKernel handshaking pattern proposal

  • Race condition

  • Kernel provisioners are doing this same pattern

  • How do we transition from one to the other

    • Keep this information in the kernelspec

• Zach

  • Grab some domains?

  • events.jupyter.org

    • Let’s keep this reserved for “events” as in social events, not schemas/protocols.

  • protocol.jupyter.org

  • schemas.jupyter.org

    • Move events to this new URI.

  • Who has the authority to make these domains

[minrk]

Thanks @ivanov!

[ivanov]

Monday April 24, 2023

Attendees

• Frederic Collonval, JupyterLab, QuantStack
• Paul Ivanov, Jupyter Foundations, Project Jupyter
• Zach Sailer, Server, Apple
• Sylvain Corlay, Voilà, QuantStack
• Afshin T. Darian, [EC, guest], QuantStack
• David Brochart, [guest], QuantStack
• Johan Mabille, Jupyter Kernels, QuantStack

Decisions made

• none

Action items

• [Paul] Open an issue about asynchronous communication
• [Zach] schema.jupyter.org JEP
• Action items from previous meeting

Agenda and minutes

• [Paul] How to include and encourage more asynchronous participation in SSC activities / meetings

  • SSC meeting minutes 2023 #2

  • Johan: pinging everyone on every PR seems like overkill

    • Prefer to keep it for votes

  • Zach: there’s not one single channel that we know everyone should be watching

    • Github’s tough

      • Notification bankruptcy

    • Google groups might be it - but no confirmation that someone’s seen it

      • Need an emoji reaction per email

  • Maybe gitter / slack channel

    • Zach - is new gitter painful

      • Johan - no, we use it at QuantStack
      • Darian - might be fine, might fall short (notifications)

  • Discord server?

  • Private vs public conversations

    • Not private, but more internal communication -

  • Try something out

• [Johan] What level of granularity do we want to give to jupyter-standards repositories?

• [Johan] Initial documentation of kernel protocol injupyter-standards

• [Johan]Kernel JSON schema JEP

  • Don’t want to open a JEP for each new schema, but this one seems important
  • Motivation for definitions is for auto-generation / interoperability of code, and unit tests

• [Zach] schema.jupyter.org subdomain

  • Went to the EC office hours to discuss this topic

  • Need to determine governance around this subdomain.

    • Who has the authority to publish schemas here?

    • Does every new schema require a JEP (hopefully not…)

      • Paul: Sub-projects can have their own schemas that don’t require a full JEP process, but cross-project schemas probably should be JEPs.
      • Darian: make a template that asks if this schema will be used in multiple projects, and if so, it falls under the purview of the SSC, but if it is for a single sub-project then anyone with merge rights can merge it.

  • Will submit a JEP this week.

    • Add some namespace to schema URIs to help address the issue of publishing serious stuff too soon, e.g. /ratified/, /experimental/, …
    • Require “versioning” in all URIs.

• [Paul] did JEP improvements vote start from last week?

  • Will try to do it this week.

• [Johan] another JEP:handshake pattern

  • Main disagreement about what level of detail on the impact we should have in the JEP

  • Gateway is not using the connection files

    • This proposal is closer to what they are using

[ivanov]

Monday,May 1, 2023

• Paul Ivanov, Foundations, Project Jupyter
• Itay Dafna, Widgets, Netflix
• Rick Wagner, Security, UCSD
• Carol Willing, Standards, Noteable
• Sylvain Corlay, Voilà, QuantStack
• Kevin Bates
• Zach Sailer, Server, Apple

Decisions made

• None

Action items

• Another pass on the Kernel Handshake JEP to include the testing tool

Agenda and minutes

• Kernel Handshake JEP discussion (30 minutes)

  • Notes onhttps://hackmd.io/APJMu0puQdKQ4L_Vj2Pf7w
  • Another pass on the Kernel Handshake JEP to include the testing tool

• (5 minutes)PyPI Organizations - Rick, Security

  • Meta-thinking: Details of managing and releasing software should happen at the SSC, even if the EC will be making the decision.
  • How are we maintaining who should have privileged accounts
  • Document a process for asking for a change to be made

• (10 minutes) subdomain and repo for schemas under jupyter.org

  • Feels like a low-risk JEP, would be good to include it in other JEPs
  • Single repo for all of them.
  • “Hello, world” JEP

• Heads up: lots of follow up conversations on the notebook format

  • JEPs are being written, give them the attention they deserve when being submitted

• Copy-to-globals support for debugger_info

• Shepherd discussion

  • One JEP at a time - assign
  • End of agenda have list of JEPs that were discussed in the meeting and ones that are in-flight

• Software Steering Council Meeting in person next week at JupyterCon

[fcollonval]

Monday, May 15, 2023

• Johan Mabille, Jupyter Kernels, QuantStack
• Itay Dafna, Jupyter Widgets, Netflix

Decisions made

None

Action items

None

Agenda and minutes

Minimal attendance, no discussion/decisions today.

[fcollonval]

Monday, May 22, 2023

• Johan Mabille, Jupyter Kernels, QuantStack
• Itay Dafna, Jupyter Widgets, Netflix
• Afshin Darian, EC

Decisions made

No decisions made on Carol’s proposal yet. The EC will meet and decide whether there is merit in changing the process or not. In case there isn’t, nothing changes and the existing process remains. In case the EC finds there is more discussion to be had on this topic, the conversation will continue by sending a member of the EC to the SSC calls.

Action items

None

Agenda and minutes

• Discussed the JEP review process in Reviewed JEP process by JohanMabille · Pull Request #104 · jupyter/enhancement-proposals (github.com). Discussed Carol’s proposal of overhauling the JEP process such that there is a type of working group with a shepherd picked from the SSC, where the final decision is put to a vote by the EC.
• The main concerns:
  • There is an excess burden on SSC members to make decisions where not all members can meaningfully contribute.
  • The JEP process is not transparent enough
  • Slow moving-JEP is a good thing, whereas at the moment we’re going faster

[fcollonval]

Monday, Jun 5, 2023

Attendees

• Frederic Collonval, QuantStack, JupyterLab
• Rick Wagner, UCSD, Security
• Itay Dafna, Netflix, SSC Widgets
• Sylvain Corlay, QuantStack, Voilà
• Zach Sailer, Apple, Server
• Johan Mabille, QuantStack, Kernels

Decisions made

• Approved JEP subdomain and repository for publishing schemas under jupyter.org

Action items

• Frederic:

  • Send request to migrate nbformat to jupyter-standards organization
  • Send email with the actions to the council

• All:

  • JEP to review (to prepare discussion for modifying their status) from simple to hard:

    • Add text-based diagram in markdown cells: Adopting a text-based diagram syntax in Jupyter Markdown enhancement-proposals#101
    • $schema in nb format: Add JEP for adding $schema to notebook format enhancement-proposals#97
    • Kernel Optional Features JEP for Optional Features enhancement-proposals#92
    • Markdown flavor JEP: First draft markdown flavor JEP enhancement-proposals#99
    • Markdown based format: Markdown based notebooks enhancement-proposals#103

  • Vote need on Kernel handshaking pattern proposal enhancement-proposals#66

Agenda and minutes

• Discussion on the JEP JEP
  Is the SSC the best vessel for validating the JEP? Carol proposed that the EC should be involved in the process.

• Status of schema publication JEP: [JEP] subdomain and repository for publishing schemas under jupyter.org enhancement-proposals#108

  • Approved during the call by the council
  • Zach and Fred will work to setup a project on https://github.com/orgs/jupyter-standards

• [Frederic] Should we migrate more packages to jupyter standards? I was thinking nbformat and jupyter_ydoc would make sense.

  • Nbformat makes sense, jupyter_ydoc maybe not (best would be to automate a conversion from a schema).
  • I’ll open a request for transferring nbformat through an email to Jupyter Standards Council

• [Frederic] I would like to push forward the JEPs resulting from the notebook format workshop. What would be the best path to prioritize them:

  • Add text-based diagram in markdown cells: Adopting a text-based diagram syntax in Jupyter Markdown enhancement-proposals#101

  • $schema in nb format: Add JEP for adding $schema to notebook format enhancement-proposals#97

  • Markdown flavor JEP: First draft markdown flavor JEP enhancement-proposals#99

  • Markdown based format: Markdown based notebooks enhancement-proposals#103

  • Side note for the Markdown flavor I would like to spin up a Markdown test for the supported syntax (started work at First markdown parser tests jupyterlab/benchmarks#97) - jupyter-standards org look like a good place

  • Follow-up: send in the e-mail to the council with a list of the JEP from simplest to hardest.

• [Johan] Kernel Optional Features JEP for Optional Features enhancement-proposals#92

[JohanMabille]

Monday, Jun 12, 2023

Attendees

• Frederic Collonval, QuantStack, JupyterLab
• Itay Dafna, Netflix, Widgets
• Zach Sailer, Apple, Server
• Johan Mabille, QuantStack, Kernel
• Afshin Darian, QuantStack, EC

Decisions made

None

Action items

• [Zach] Update the JEP guideline
• [Johan] Call for vote on Kernel optional features
• [Frederic] Call for vote on $schema key (+ update URL) and text-based diagram
• [Frederic] Push on nbformat move

Agenda and minutes

• Vote on Kernel handshaking pattern

  • Quorum reached - how to make the vote time bounded to have the ball rolling
  • In the future, we should probably set rules on phases and make the vote period and vote period (aka the discussion had enough time to be done prior to the vote).
    Vote is specified as a 2-week period but there is nothing for the other phases
    We could give the shepherd the ability to set soft deadlines for phases - probably not written in the rule but depending on the discussion at the SSC.
    A minimal period of commitment by the author should be at least 6 weeks to cover the different phases
  • On this specific one, Eric posted a comment asking for additional time to look at it this week. We will take the final decision next week unless there is a major issue raised by Eric.

• Nbformat place - GitHub jupyter-standards?

  • Some concerns raised by Matthias Bussonnier that we should keep the number of GitHub organizations low for security / audit reasons. But otherwise no objections.
  • [Frederic] will push for doing the move

• JEP discussion / review

  • Add text-based diagram in markdown cells: Adopting a text-based diagram syntax in Jupyter Markdown enhancement-proposals#101
    Call for vote
  • $schema in nb format: Add JEP for adding $schema to notebook format enhancement-proposals#97
    Update the schema to schema.jupyter.org for consistency
    Call for vote
  • Kernel Optional Features JEP for Optional Features enhancement-proposals#92
    Add the diff to the kernel spec
    Call for vote
  • Markdown flavor JEP: First draft markdown flavor JEP enhancement-proposals#99
    Add note about giving 2 weeks more discussion
  • Markdown based format: Markdown based notebooks enhancement-proposals#103
    Add note about giving 2 weeks more discussion

• Set up of the schema website

  • One of the blocker is to get the EC to update the DNS

• Discussion about the SSC organization

  • Is the council neutral enough?
    • Number of attendees is lower than expected
    • Asynchronous participation is though
    • Having a core number of people is mandatory for the subjects to be pushed forward - this is already how the various subgroup calls are organized.
  • To improve credibility, we could add in the JEP of JEP to have a smaller group of groups that analyze a JEP to provide a conclusion to help the members have a better idea of what to vote for. This will help reduce the involvement required.

[JohanMabille]

Monday, Jun 19, 2023

June 19 is a US bank holidy, the meeting was adjourned until next week.

[fcollonval]

Monday, Jun 26, 2023

Attendees

• Frederic, QuantStack, JupyterLab
• Rick Wagner, UCSD, Security
• Itay Dafna, Netflix, Widgets
• Johan Mabille, QuantStack, Kernel
• Eric Charles, Notebook, Datalayer, Anaconda
• Sylvain Corlay, QuantStack, Voilà

Decisions made

• Kernel Optional Features JEP - approved
• Kernel Handshaking pattern JEP - approved

Action items

• [Johan] Add links to the minutes for advertisement:
  https://jupyter.org/governance/software_steering_council.html
  Maybe an additional entry in the documentation: https://docs.jupyter.org/en/latest
• [Rick] Will look at Discourse for a good place to advertise links to governance bodies
• [Itay] (hold off this for now) A PR that proposes that in the list of Jupyter Projects, Jupyter Standards and Foundations to merge

Agenda and minutes

• Visibility of activities.

  • Make these minutes public? Or be more consistent about posting minutes to the team compass?
    The minutes are publicly available on SSC meeting minutes 2023 #2
  • Also, link to minutes or team compass on main Jupyter site some

• Vote status

  • Kernel handshaking pattern proposal Kernel handshaking pattern proposal enhancement-proposals#66
    → Vote is closed and the JEP was accepted
    → Ensued discussion about the JEP and possible withdrawal with another JEP.

  • Add text-based diagram in markdown cells: Adopting a text-based diagram syntax in Jupyter Markdown enhancement-proposals#101
    Discussion should this be a core feature or an extension one?
    → Will ping the SSC to vote to achieve the quorum

  • $schema in nb format: Add JEP for adding $schema to notebook format enhancement-proposals#97
    → Will ping the SSC to vote to achieve the quorum

  • Kernel Optional Features JEP for Optional Features enhancement-proposals#92
    → Vote is closed and the JEP was accepted

• Standard domain status
  Afshin will look at the DNS rights this week