Monero Community Workgroup Meeting: May 24th 16:00 UTC

[plowsof]

Location: Libera.chat, #monero-community | Matrix

Instructions for joining the monero.social Matrix server.

Time
16:00 UTC Check your timezone

Moderator: plowsof

Please reach out in advance of the meeting if you would like to propose an agenda item.

Proposed Meeting Items:

1. Introduction
2. Greetings
3. Community highlights
   • Monero Research Lab Meeting - Wed 21 May 2025, 17:00 UTC #1208
   • https://miningpoolstats.stream/monero
   • wallet2: use IO threadpool for getblocks.bin network request monero#9936
   • https://nano.p2pool.observer/
   • https://github.com/slave-blocker/frontend-monero-pool
   • Improve initial refresh: use nearest checkpoint in fast_refresh monero#9935
     News: Monero Observer - Revuo Monero- Monero Moon
4. CCS updates
   a. Haveno App (Cross Platform)
5. Workgroup reports
   a. Dev workgroup
   b. Localization workgroup
   c. Outreach workgroup
   d. Events workgroup - MoneroKon 2025
   e. Website workgroup
   f. Policy workgroup
   g. Research workgroup
   h. Seraphis Migration workgroup
6. Open ideas time
7. Confirm next meeting date/time

Previous meeting including logs

Meeting logs will be posted here afterwards.

[plowsof]

<plowsof> meeting time

<plowsof> greetings #1209

<msvb-lab> Hello.

<syntheticbird:monero.social> hi

<geonic> hola

<geonic> (didn’t know there was a meeting happening but felt rude not to respond :))

<plowsof> the bridge is severely delayed and broken, thank you for confirming geonic and saying hello

<plowsof> syntheticbird was correct

<plowsof:matrix.org> theres been a delay in the FCMP++ testnet launch , prev MRL meeting discussed this #1208

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> i launched a testnet but it broke. Will relaunch when fixed

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> s/broke/exploded

<plowsof:matrix.org> (bridge gone) weeee

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> maybe monero.social gone

<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Test 16:04

<plowsof> hello again world

<r4v3r23:monero.social> works

<SyntheticBird> damn irc -> matrix is slow af

<0xfffc:monero.social> For me it is gone.

<SyntheticBird> nvm both sides are slow af

<0xfffc:monero.social> ( But came back it seems )

<ravfx:xmr.mx> work here

<SyntheticBird> rav you are on xmr.mx thats why

<plowsof:matrix.org> supportxmr.com hashes pumping https://miningpoolstats.stream/monero

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> 0xfffc @0xFFFC:monero.social opened pr to fix our inefficient tx relaying. Should save upwards of 90% bandwidth on well connected nodes

<r4v3r23:monero.social> link

<plowsof:matrix.org> "https://nano.p2pool.observer/ mined a 5th block" shared by via extra_evil_6666 in #p2pool-log:libera.chat

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Support has almost 50% 👀

<plowsof:matrix.org> monero-project/monero#9933

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Well, closer to 40

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> I wonder why they left p2pool

<SyntheticBird> plowsof, next time meeting should be done on minecraft

<SyntheticBird> their chat system is more reliable

<NorrinRadd> didn't realize that we're probably missing messages

<plowsof> yes things are slow

<SyntheticBird> ping whoever is responsible i forgor who that is

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Maybe the p2pool HR was supportxmr testing MM tari all along?

<plowsof:matrix.org> https://github.com/SChernykh/p2pool/releases v4.6 with merge mining donation support

<plowsof:matrix.org> all this shifting of hashes to various pools.. p2pool rising and falling 🤷

<plowsof:matrix.org> slave_blocker shared this https://github.com/slave-blocker/frontend-monero-pool , maybe gingeropolous could find use in it

<plowsof> pigeons but im not sure what the problem is

<plowsof:matrix.org> public rpc nodes will be thankful having a 90% bandwidth reduction (eco friendly ++)

<plowsof:matrix.org> https://ccs.getmonero.org/funding-required/ 👀

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> P2p*

<plowsof:matrix.org> the entire network as a whole

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> yeah. The extra tax on bandwidth should free up a lot of resources and lower latency

<plowsof:matrix.org> federation between homeservers is slow , anything else to touch on

<aremor:matrix.org> You mean then meeting is almost over?

<aremor:matrix.org> I think the requests made to the Haveno Cross Platform App last week have been met

<plowsof:matrix.org> just the delayed start is over

<plowsof:matrix.org> a. Haveno App (Cross Platform)

<aremor:matrix.org> s/week/meeting

<xFFFC0000> monero.social is having a serious issue right now.

<SyntheticBird> interesting meeting

<aremor:matrix.org> Specifically, more up votes

<plowsof:matrix.org> not sure who kriptiik krip, PyXMR, Yijia Zhang are

<plowsof:matrix.org> Pyxmr and zhang are 1 person aka Jackie* not sure who ktiptiik krip is

<plowsof:matrix.org> rbrunner and syntheticbird 👍️

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> related: "apparently there is a working android app ready for review: https://github.com/nobbydoo80/haveno-android-build" << another slop app

<plowsof:matrix.org> can ignore that one

<plowsof:matrix.org> https://github.com/atsamd21/Haveno-app is the only open source serious contender it seems

<aremor:matrix.org> Saw something about MAUI a week ago. Don’t know how true it is

<aremor:matrix.org> https://youtu.be/93pxUFZgS9g

<plowsof:matrix.org> people still maintain COBOL code 😄

<aremor:matrix.org> Mainframes are built to last decades. Phones aren’t

<aremor:matrix.org> An app written 3 years ago often wont compile now

<plowsof:matrix.org> atsamd21: are you aware of the MAUI situation linked above?

<atsamd21:matrix.org> MAUI is fine, maybe not as big as other frameworks but they're not going to stop supporting it any time soon

<plowsof:matrix.org> but a random youtube comment said "nooooooooo" are you certain!

<aremor:matrix.org> I think it’s a valid concern, as most have probably never heard of it before 2 months ago. It’s not clear how dedicated MSFT is to it

<aremor:matrix.org> Flutter has been going strong since 2016, although created around 2014 or 2011 I think

<aremor:matrix.org> Google has a vested interest in Flutter succeeding in order to lure away iOS developers

<aremor:matrix.org> It also happens to be open source. Don’t know about MAUI

<atsamd21:matrix.org> MAUI is open source

<atsamd21:matrix.org> https://github.com/dotnet/maui

<aremor:matrix.org> Cake / Monero.com, Stack Wallet, both flutter

<aremor:matrix.org> Actually has real world usage - https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/top-apps-built-with-flutter-framework/

<plowsof:matrix.org> atsamd21 do you have a time estimate of completing your project? have you received enough monetary support to continue?

<syntheticbird:monero.social> I hate Flutter with a passion. I welcome any competition, even one using something as disgusting as C#.

<SyntheticBird> and monero.social is dead again

<atsamd21:matrix.org> I'm thinking like another month or so until completed

<aremor:matrix.org> It’s not Apples to Apples as the same platforms are not expected.

<atsamd21:matrix.org> I'm planning to support other platforms as well but want to get android stable first

<aremor:matrix.org> It’d be nice to make sure that’s possible. Again, I don’t think anyone has ever seen MAUI do these things before

<plowsof:matrix.org> and aremor has completed milestones 1 , 2 , and 3 so far? but not yet open source.

<plowsof:matrix.org> atsamd21 looks to be about to claim https://bounties.monero.social/posts/126/37-175m-building-an-open-source-android-app-for-haveno-dex (as his work is open source)

<aremor:matrix.org> Yeah, demoed to Tuxsudo last week

<plowsof:matrix.org> milestones 1+2+3 where done in approx 2 months iirc?

<aremor:matrix.org> approximately

<plowsof:matrix.org> what would the hrly xmr rate be .. seems comparable / more than the upper rust echelon of the ccs

<msvb-lab> Has our meeting concluded or is this another bridge problem with massive delay? I'm not reading any more text communication on IRC.

<msvb-lab> Today is a strange day. I'll assume the meeting is over, so thank you very much for a good meeting and thanks especially to plowsof for the good moderation.

<plowsof> msvb-lab thanks for attending, the bridge is delayed

<geonic> good day all

<n1oc> [CCS Proposals] plowsoff closed merge request #570: Haveno App (Cross Platform) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/570

<Rucknium> In the next few weeks I will probably open a new research CCS. If the community wants to suggest protocol-level research questions that can be investigated using the tools of statistics and/or economics, please do. I will probably continue to work on techniques to prevent anti-privacy adversaries from linking transactions and users' IP addresses (i.e. network-level privacy), at least.

<plowsof> (when bridge returns, we can make sure this gets to matrix side Rucknium, thanks for sharing)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> for purposes of rule 4, idea = funding = wip = completed

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> All work must be licensed permissively at all stages of the proposal. There is no time where your work can be licensed under a restrictive license (even as you're working on it). Your proposal will be terminated if this is not remedied.

<aremor:matrix.org> We explicitly had this conversation in December when deciding whether to end that CCS or not. It was stated that the problem was that binaries were released. That is what broke the rule.

<aremor:matrix.org> As soon as binaries were released, it means the app was released, but no code provided.

<superquantum:matrix.org> Warm greetings, peeps! ✨

<aremor:matrix.org> Am I mistaken?

<plowsof:matrix.org> 2 months to complete milestones totalling 275xmr which is currently 94655.84 eur. im not certain if donors would be willing to allocate such funding to a haveno app while the 2 proposals in funding are not yet funded neither https://ccs.getmonero.org/funding-required/

<aremor:matrix.org> Written far before that exchange rate change

<aremor:matrix.org> If I recall, Diego was in that conversation

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> the ccs in idea stage had code up, but no license. When milestone was claimed, there was code provided for it, but it wasn't functional

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> It was licensed permissively once notified (in idea stage)

<diego:cypherstack.com> Mm? What's going on?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> kewbit released binaries on reddit, w/o any code updates on repo, which violates rule 4 of ccs and the agpl that the app is licensed under

<diego:cypherstack.com> Oh, lol, I see. This again.

<aremor:matrix.org> You have forgotten about the app that was sent around for people to install?

<plowsof:matrix.org> closing aremos proposal citing rule 4.

<plowsof:matrix.org> aremors*

<aremor:matrix.org> Why was that CCS closed?

<diego:cypherstack.com> So many reasons. Its a big saga. I can sing the tale if you want later.

<plowsof:matrix.org> suppressed memory

<diego:cypherstack.com> As I understand there's a meeting going on?

<diego:cypherstack.com> What's the issue aremor you don't want to FOSS?

<aremor:matrix.org> Of which it’s very relevant

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Because he requested payout and said he'd release the code after being paid

<aremor:matrix.org> Nope

<aremor:matrix.org> Not the case

<diego:cypherstack.com> Yes sorry. Catching up.

<plowsof:matrix.org> yes, partly over (partly due to bridge delays) but the ccs proposal at hand is a haveno app

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> it was voted to ban him from ccs, and he released some new slop 12hrs after the meeting

<plowsof:matrix.org> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/570#note_30074

<aremor:matrix.org> Then should probably close every CCS. Every single CCS has work in progress code that is being worked on.

<diego:cypherstack.com> What is with haveno and this specific drama?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Are those ccs's licensed permissively?

<diego:cypherstack.com> I wouldn't be surprised if the community wants more scrutiny of Haven't specific projects because of past shenanigans. No thats not codified in the CCS. But yes it's relevant probably.

<plowsof:matrix.org> aremor has completed milestones 1 2 3. will not be open sourced until the proposal is put to funding (or funded in full)

<aremor:matrix.org> On a new project? It’s impossible to know because you don’t have the source code

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> aremor has a ccs oroposal they theyve been working on since march 1st, and has been im idea stage for over 1 month. 3 milestones are completed, or near, and there is no code available

<plowsof:matrix.org> meanwhile there is an open source app being developed , which will be completed in a month, (although concerns over the c# gui backend raised https://github.com/atsamd21/Haveno-app)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> rules say must be permissive at all stages, which obv includes idea stage

<aremor:matrix.org> “No thats not codified in the CCS.”

<aremor:matrix.org> Wasn’t it because the app was released without source code?

<diego:cypherstack.com> Bruh just FOSS the code. Literally so stupid to do this song and dance again and again and again.

<diego:cypherstack.com> I have no time to waste on this kind of stuff anymore. FOSS code. End of. Ez.

<plowsof:matrix.org> lool

<diego:cypherstack.com> It WILL get merged. That kewbit got paid for milestone 1 is proof of the CCS bending over backward to keep contributors happy if they follow the basic rules like FOSSing code.

<aremor:matrix.org> This was explicitly defined differently in December

<diego:cypherstack.com> FOSS code. Plz and thx.

<aremor:matrix.org> Everyone here has been telling me it cannot be merged

<diego:cypherstack.com> Because its not FOSS'd?

<aremor:matrix.org> Even with no negative feedback on the proposal

<aremor:matrix.org> No

<aremor:matrix.org> At all

<aremor:matrix.org> Only 30 minutes ago plowsof started this rule 4 stuff

<diego:cypherstack.com> Honestly just need to axe Haveno at this point :P

<diego:cypherstack.com> The way I see it is this:

<diego:cypherstack.com> 1. If there's code, FOSS it. Then actual discussions can start.

<diego:cypherstack.com> 2. If there are other adjustments to be made (rates, community support, etc) it can be done after 1 is complete.

<plowsof:matrix.org> aremor you cited Jackie upvoting your proposal from 2 alts as satisfying the requirements of prev meeting

<aremor:matrix.org> Why was the CCS closed in December?

<aremor:matrix.org> It was specifically because a binary was released without code

<diego:cypherstack.com> This wasn't the reason, no.

<diego:cypherstack.com> You dorks are going to make me type it all out again, eh? Alright fine.

<syntheticbird:monero.social> no way i'm online

<aremor:matrix.org> Let me understand this…..

<aremor:matrix.org> A developer should commit every line they write and push it in order to comply with rule 4?

<plowsof:matrix.org> you are willing to open source your work , so rule 4 was delayed in being applied

<aremor:matrix.org> Idk who tf jackie is. If they voted they voted

<plowsof:matrix.org> a 12 year old using AI to communicate (currently busy in -mining)

<diego:cypherstack.com> Kewbit's milestone 1 was completed and FOSS'd and eligible for payout. But in the period before release, he did the binary shenanigans. The binary shenanigans were secondary to the real reason though. During said shenanigans it came to light he had more code he was withholding before first payout because he "didn't trust the system".

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Satellites, 30k xmr troll

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> No

<aremor:matrix.org> I don’t understand this sentence

<diego:cypherstack.com> This led to all sorts of things, but milestone did get paid out. The actual closure happened because community sentiment went so negative on the whole thing because it was a clusterfuck, that nobody wanted to continue dealing with it anymore. So it was closed.

<diego:cypherstack.com> He ruined the "special treatment" for anyone else. Go yell at him.

<plowsof:matrix.org> free to re-open after open sourcing

continued @ https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-community/20250524#c528289 (NorrinRadd aka aremor vs CCS rules + community sentiment)